Sunday, June 14, 2009

Transgender Adoption?


Link to the -> WHITE HOUSE: The most recent Presidential Proclamation

No, I'm not kidding, it's not a joke link or anything of the sort. It's the most recent move in what is absolutely the Obamanation.

I do not understand transgender adoption. I have no idea why it would be in the best interest of the United States to promote this practice. I am offended that tax money would be used to further this agenda. Kids have a tough enough time growing up without promoting this as a rational alternative. Call me insensitive, because perhaps I am. Call me traditional because I clearly am.

38 comments:

The Fien Family said...

I read it...great. What next?

Joanie M said...

I sure hope I don't sound stupid, but what is transgender adoption?

LL said...

Joanie M: Transgendered people voluntarily re-assign their sex which means that a man, for example, can voluntarily become a woman and doctors surgically create an imitation of female sexual organs. (crudely referred to as a tuck-and-roll)

Therefore the man "becomes a woman".

Transgender adoption refers to the practice of allowing people who have undergone gender re-identification to adopt and raise children.

WoFat said...

This place is getting to be very strange. Is here a movement to make the rest of the country as much like San Francisco as possible?

LL said...

It seems as if the President of the US wants to make the nation San Francisco...

Euripides said...

Ah! The good ol' US of LGBT! Such a shame that there are many good parents in the US who wish to adopt and cannot because of legal limitations and lack of adoptees. So transgendered adoption has to be pushed by the POTUS?

On this issue alone I would cease to support Obama, if I hadn't lost all respect for the man long ago.

Opus #6 said...

This bothers me. The poor kids.

Red said...

"What's bad is good, what's good is bad" seems to be the new mantra that's coming to fruition in these days. I wish our country would get back to normal and defect from weird.

darlin said...

1314 days.

Jessica said...

You're a silly conservative bigot. What, do you think "Transgender Adoption" means Ru Paul in 5 inch heels pushing a diamond studded stroller? Give me a break. There are plenty of transgender men and women out there who are down to earth regular people..many of which who are very successful people. Chances are you've never met one of US because WE tend to keep to ourselves when we blend in because if we dont, we get hatred and discrimination like this. Why, if someone is capable and willing to provide a loving home for a child, would you take issue? Get real.

LL said...

Jessie/Jessica - In my career I have encountered a number of transgender people. As a police officer I encountered the worst in every group - rarely the best. However the transgendered people I encountered could be fairly referred to as a circus side-show of dysfunctionality that transcended the normal messed up people who fall into the law enforcement net.

Children need men and women in their lives in order to adapt to the social world around them. I think the two-mommies/two-daddies are bad enough. The two - whatevers create a situation in my mind that is impossible for a child to reconcile effectively.

I don't hate transgendered people. I admit that I pity them and you may find THAT offensive. Trying to adapt yourself to a world that really doesn't understand or want to understand you must be tough, Jessie/Jessica.

As to whether you should be able to adopt a child, I would have to say, "no". Not ever. And I'm afraid that in that I represent the VAST majority of people in North America (Canadians, Mexicans and Americans).

Jessica said...

LL: I'll be honest. I loathe the trans community. It's usually full of confusion, exorbitance, sexual oddity, and substance abuse. There's also real confusion about if many of the people who consider themselves transsexual and go through transition actually ARE transsexual. Those are the people who deserve your pity. Not someone like me.

Chances are, if you were to deal with me in the course of duty, you would probably not even know that I have this history. That's most likely the case with many other women with a trans history that you've encountered but not been able to identify.

I am not a "whatever", I am a woman. I have a successful career, I pay my taxes, and I am in a wonderful long term relationship with a man I love.

When I do decide to adopt (and I plan on it), my child will grow up in a very normal, loving home. I have no intention of putting any child in a situation where their life would be negatively impacted by my presence in it.

You (and the "VAST majority") are welcome to believe whatever you wish. It just hurts me to see the ignorance coming from someone who appears to be a very intelligent person.

Opus #6 said...

It pains me to see someone who puts their feelings ahead of what is in the best interests of a child.

I'm sorry this offends you. But I would rather offend 10 transgender grown-ups than mess up 1 innocent babe through a bad adoption.

And setting a child up for gender confusion by adopting them into a transgender couple's home would be wrong. My opinion.

And intelligent people can differ on this issue. Just because somebody does not agree with you, does not diminish their intelligence.

LL said...

When the question arises who should be protected, I default to the interests of the child - who is helpless. That's true in any possible situation or scenario.

My feelings about the transgender community are based on experience and limited interaction. I don't want to tell "war stories" on the blog because they would all portray people who made a transgender decision in a negative light.

If 95% of all transgender people would have problems raising a child, that's a good reason to say there shouldn't be transgender adoption (even at the 5% who might make good parents). It has to default in the interests of the child.

Anonymous said...

LL,

Where do you get the 95% number from?

LL said...

Anon:

JESSICA SAID (This blog response) "LL: I'll be honest. I loathe the trans community. It's usually full of confusion, exorbitance, sexual oddity, and substance abuse. There's also real confusion about if many of the people who consider themselves transsexual and go through transition actually ARE transsexual. Those are the people who deserve your pity. Not someone like me."

I said "if 95%" and yes that number is not based on any statistic I can churn up - have problems raising children, that's a reason not to allow transexual adoption. There is not any rational body of transexuals to speak for the 5% who might be good parents because the ranting of the radical transexuals is SO VERY LOUD.

The transexual people I've met all have "issues". It doesn't mean that they didn't have issues before the change or that heterosexual people don't have problems too - but often those issues are extreme.

Children have a tough time growing up, making decisions, finding role models and heroes. I think that the decision to find yourself in a sex change operation is ok, should be legal, etc. But bringing children into that process is wrong.

queen of freaks said...

As a comming of age Transgender teen this post highly disgust me, what is wrong with all of you? you take a few experience with transgenders and judge all of us, this is nothing but racism. It is no diffrent from having bad experience with a a black man or a white man or what ever other race or sex. You have no right to say what is in the best interest of a child with no evidence behind your claims, if you even tried to understand us you would know that children who have been sexually abused are able to connect with transgender individuals and feel much safer talking about thewre sexuality. The only thing kids have hards growing up is people like you, judging us and calling us freaks and deciding if we can have families! if you botherd to even read up on transgeder adoption you would also know that almsot all or even all of canada accepts it,even a few states there have. It is this reaction most of us turn to drugs and self mutalation, why we seek to numb our selves completly of this world or turn to suiside. Are spilled blood and hurt is on all of your hands. We may be diffrent but we are still people and have every right to have families, jobs, to go out and not be harrassed you, we have the right to walk down a street and not be gawked at or stared at. Do not take us for granted because we live and work in the world as well, god forbid it but perhaps at some point you are seriously harmed, your docter could be a transgender. Iv said my bit, and expressed my self in limits iv reframed from using swear words or terms.

Euripides said...

QoF:

Interesting that you'd make all the same argumentative errors that LL had already addressed. First, there simply is no means to connect transgendered people with the concept of race.

Second, the evidence in favor of two-parent, man and woman families providing the basis for a whole society rests on thousands of years of society and families. To deny that such families produced the best outcomes for the next generation is to deny the success of human societies.

Third, based on broken families, are we to infer that the best solution is to encourage transgendered adoption? That is a straw man argument. The best solution is to encourage and maintain the natural family to raise the next generation, including adoption of children.

All children have a right to a mom and a dad and a stable family.

queen of freaks said...

Yes there i, we face the same porblems as racism. How would you even know unless you were one of us. And the whole nucular family consept has been proven to not be the only option to raise a child. Yes a child does need Female and Male role modules but that does not mean the childs grandparents can not surve as such. So your saying transgenderd men and women can not have a stable family? that we can not give a child the emotional and physical needs they will require to be a strong independant individual? If you insist on doing what is best for a child outcome then "Common" or "straight" couples should have to obtain a licence to even parent, or to earn the right to become pregnant. you say we will harm a child more then a "straight couple" But i dont see it plasterd all over the news about a transgender father molesting there children or killing them or any other horrid acts of violence to them. ANd as iv said before, if you botherd to even look into transgenderism you would know a child would have a mother anda father. we take on the gender roles we wish. And this has already been proven, if it was so bad for children why would Canada of leaglized it and a few States as well? Dont argue what yu dont understand.

LL said...

The nuclear family has been shown through COUNTLESS studies to be the best possible option in raising a child.

Queen of Freaks, you're 17 years old according to your blog profile. I presume you are yearning (as the queen and not king) to raise a child at present with your transgendered mate.

One question: Did you have younger siblings you helped raise?

queen of freaks said...

I am 18, and yes iv always cared for my younger siblings, and younger siblings for my family, from infantcy to the age of about 12. I also have worked with a mentally disabled child. Nucular faily stucture ma be the alt most best, but the same can be said for having parents who dont smoke drink, are active physically, but that dosnt mean all other parents are unfit. All parenting styles have certin draw backs.

Azalea said...

So I am very curious as to why this topic is what has your panties in a bunch. I will address it with mine. Oh and by the way in this post you are acting as a reasonable person and the trans community is the unreasonable as noted from your own quote "The unreasonable persist in trying to adapt the world to themselves, therefore all progress depends on unreasonable people."

So let us see, why should a trans person be able to adopt? Well first likely because average couples are much too selfish and most can't see a child as theirs unless it is of there blood or unless it is their mistake.

You should be posting about teen parents I assure it is a big issue in the US. Of course they get to keep them because they got drunk at a high school party and had sex with a random boy so surely she is going to make a GREAT mother! Now let's see oh yes drug addicted and welfare parents. This is a great alternative to allowing trans people to adopt. Let's allow a child to be raised by jobless people or those on drugs. I am sure the child will grow up to be a role model.

You seem to be missing a much larger issue and your ignorance with drag queen prostitutes I find amusing. Do you think that normal women prostitutes likely don't have kids at home who more than likely were born with AIDS or an addiction of some kind? Why fight this battle is my question. There are much more important issues relating to the wellbeing of children then there parent's gender. Truth be told with a real trans person the child would likely NEVER know.

I hope your underlying issues are resolved before the end of your life time. I would much rather see you as an ally fighting for the wellbeing of children BORN to parents who can't handle their kids and getting them into homes that can love and support them and raise them to grow to be respectful, responsible, and contributing American citizens.

Billi said...

As a partner of a transgender person, I am hurt when I read things like this. You talk a lot about transwomen but what of transmen? The born female but living as male section of trans people is becoming more wellknown but still many aren't acknowledging their existence. Many have had children before they transition and they are still amazing parents. With the right approach, no child will be hurt by having a transgender parent. Being open and honest with your child when they are at an age to understand will help that bond grow and the parent can provide the child with the support they need in understand it. Also, so many trans people "pass" that there is no reason to even tell them that you are trans. It's irrelevant to the majority of the persons life and I understand why some families would choose not to tell their child that they were born in a different gender than the one they legally are now.

Jakub Wiƛniewski said...

I agree that the interests of the child is paramount. However, I believe that you ought to judge people on their character and not on their status as straight or LGBT. If a person is not of the right character to care for a child then they should not be allowed to, if they are then they ought to. I'm not going to debate what proportion of the transgender community would make decent parents or not, neither you or I have those statistics to hand. However, there are stringent checks on potential parents (as an adoptive parent I can assure you of this) and really you can be much more sure that adopted parents will be of a high calibre than those that have children biologically (I am not suggesting they are not good parents just that you could not be as sure of this). In my opinion it would be better for such people, regardless of orientation or gender, to provide a loving and stable home for a child than to leave them in the care of the state feeling unloved and rejected.
Presuming that it is fact that a nuclear family is the best for a child, although some would argue otherwise, even still that does not take into account the differences of having a family that may well not be 'perfect' and not having a family. Find a non-biased study that says children do better off in state care than in a loving family despite that family not being conventional and I will agree that your viewpoint is valid and based on fact rather than prejudice.
(And before you attack me as being biased I can inform you that I am a straight biological male, I just hate the idea that I could live in a society where my children would not be allowed to become parents merely because they were LGBT rather than because they were unfit)

Anonymous said...

I have to say from an outside view, i have no roblem with transgender adoption, as myself i am female to male transsexual and i want to be a parent, however it was not suitable for me to have children of my own before transition, now i am in a relation ship with another transsexual male to female... we could create and provide a loving and caring family for which any child would be happy of, we are not rich we are not poor but we have love and care to give to a sibling group... so whats the problem?

flamingsword said...

The shy young man I loved in college is now a competent Republican Catholic woman of good standing in her community. Her male body was a lie that she had to surgically correct to tell the truth of herself. When she decided to transition, we made an agreement that should I have any unexpected blessings that I would, for neurological reasons, be unable to raise, that she would adopt them and raise them as her own. She's always been a more nurturing person than I have, and will make a good parent.

As a police officer, you do get to see the worst of humanity. Do not doubt that the most hated segments of our society become the people with the most issues. Anyone who has the stress of so much prejudice and ill-treatment is likely to wind up in your path unless they are as strong as my friend, have her luck, have her church and family and social network.

The nuclear family structure that applies today did not exist 150 years ago, nor any point in human history before that. If you want to raise a child in the way that's really the most proven method, then it takes a village. It takes the kind of community this transgendered friend of mine has, and that most transfolk become to each other in areas where they can safely congregate and collectivize, like San Francisco. And if they start using collective action to end discrimination against them through nonviolent means, then I support all such endeavors, as is my duty as an American.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I just thought that I'd chime in here, even though the post is pretty old.

I am transgender, and I think the issue the shouldn't be determining which segment of the transgender population is or isn't deserving to adopt children, but the fact that we should not be automatically disbarred from adopting, just because we are trans. That is blatantly discriminatory against a whole group of people and for reasons that are based on stereotypes.

I'm not saying that ALL transpeople or even any given number of transpeople should be able to adopt, but I don't think it should be illegal JUST because of an individual's transgender status. As a transwoman, all I want is to be held to the same standards as a cisgendered person, which for the sake of the child, I'd expect to be extremely high. If I'm declared unfit for some reason, I'd like it to be for one of the same reasons that a cisgendered applicant might be declared unfit, NOT because of my gender identity. Isn't that fair?

Even if you assume (yes, assume) that only 1 out of 100 trans people are fit to adopt, versus 20 out of 100 cisgendered people, should it be illegal for that 1 transperson to adopt, just on the basis that "most" transpeople would be unfit adoptive parents?

For me personally, my life path has not changed since I transitioned. I finished my undergraduate degree in Sculpture (at the best Sculpture Department in the US) last year, and I'm currently working on my Master's degree in Library and Information Science (at one of the top archiving/preservation programs in the US), and I plan on becoming an art archivist/cataloger/curator when I finish. I don't have issues with depression, I'm well-adjusted, I have a part-time job while I'm in school (and have had a job of some capacity for a long time), and I pass (though I'm not sure that should matter). I work in RETAIL, and 99% of the people I interact with do not know that I am trans, and I'm willing to bet that the 1% that suspects something just chalk it up to something else. I had the love and support of my family and friends throughout the entire process, and even random co-workers and acquaintances who found out later have been incredibly supportive. In that way, I am one of the lucky ones.

Somewhere down the road, I would like to get married to an amazing man and raise children. I was adopted myself, and I think adoption is a wonderful thing, so I am hurt when people say that every single transperson should not be allowed to adopt, when they don't even know me, and are just basing what they know about me on a negative stereotype of a group of people that I belong to.

That people can and will disregard how hard I've worked, how much love I could give to a child, and just how much I would care. When I really think about how much I would love my child, I literally ache. Why should I have to struggle so much more to try and adopt, or not be allowed to at all, just because of my gender identity?

That's me sticking up for myself, and not so much for the trans community, but I really do think that every transperson should have the opportunity to at least be screened via normal methods, not just automatically disqualified.

Ali said...

Hi, I just thought that I'd chime in here, even though the post is pretty old.

I am transgender, and I think the issue the shouldn't be determining which segment of the transgender population is or isn't deserving to adopt children, but the fact that we should not be automatically disbarred from adopting, just because we are trans. That is blatantly discriminatory against a whole group of people and for reasons that are based on stereotypes.

I'm not saying that ALL transpeople or even any given number of transpeople should be able to adopt, but I don't think it should be illegal JUST because of an individual's transgender status. As a transwoman, all I want is to be held to the same standards as a cisgendered person, which for the sake of the child, I'd expect to be extremely high. If I'm declared unfit for some reason, I'd like it to be for one of the same reasons that a cisgendered applicant might be declared unfit, NOT because of my gender identity. Isn't that fair?

Even if you assume (yes, assume) that only 1 out of 100 trans people are fit to adopt, versus 20 out of 100 cisgendered people, should it be illegal for that 1 transperson to adopt, just on the basis that "most" transpeople would be unfit adoptive parents?

For me personally, my life path has not changed since I transitioned. I finished my undergraduate degree in Sculpture (at the best Sculpture Department in the US) last year, and I'm currently working on my Master's degree in Library and Information Science (at one of the top archiving/preservation programs in the US), and I plan on becoming an art archivist/cataloger/curator when I finish. I don't have issues with depression, I'm well-adjusted, I have a part-time job while I'm in school (and have had a job of some capacity for a long time), and I pass (though I'm not sure that should matter). I work in RETAIL, and 99% of the people I interact with do not know that I am trans, and I'm willing to bet that the 1% that suspects something just chalk it up to something else. I had the love and support of my family and friends throughout the entire process, and even random co-workers and acquaintances who found out later have been incredibly supportive. In that way, I am one of the lucky ones.

Somewhere down the road, I would like to get married to an amazing man and raise children. I was adopted myself, and I think adoption is a wonderful thing, so I am hurt when people say that every single transperson should not be allowed to adopt, when they don't even know me, and are just basing what they know about me on a negative stereotype of a group of people that I belong to.

That people can and will disregard how hard I've worked, how much love I could give to a child, and just how much I would care. When I really think about how much I would love my child, I literally ache. Why should I have to struggle so much more to try and adopt, or not be allowed to at all, just because of my gender identity?

That's me sticking up for myself, and not so much for the trans community, but I really do think that every transperson should have the opportunity to at least be screened via normal methods, not just automatically disqualified.

Anonymous said...

You can't convince someone they're the opposite gender, they feel it. It's innate. There was actually an experiment in Canada like this. A boy suffered a botched circumcision and a therapist convinced the parents to raise him as a girl. He knew something was wrong, because he always felt he was a boy. Putting your own bigotry above the welfare of a child is deplorable. If a loving, nurturing, supportive, and stable home can be provided then a child should be there. How many people who were raised in heterosexual cis-gendered homes are screwed up? Sexuality and/or gender are not a barometer of someones parenting skills.

Anonymous said...

You may find this hard to believe...

I'm almost as conservative as one can be. I'm also beginning to transition. It's not something I would've chosen if I had the choice. In fact, I'm the same person I always was. Even getting to the point of accepting it in myself was hard, even though I've felt it since I was younger, and it has silently damaged relationship after relationship in my life. I've had more problems with the law and social situations as a man. I'm much more well-adjusted and happy now that I've finally stopped lying to myself about it. I don't feel any need to prove myself, or show off how masculine I am, or any of that.

Your own personal experience may have been bad, but remember, I'm still a person, just as you are, with needs and desires. To paraphrase Shakespeare, when you tickle me, I'll laugh; when you prick me, I still bleed. I'm not a drug-addled streetwalker, but a graduate student in the sciences, working to make the world a better place. My goal is not to subvert your children and turn them into little liberals--far from it. Of the other transgendered individuals I've met, none of them really fit your description of people who one shouldn't be associated with; in fact, they really are wonderful people who I'm glad to have had in my life.

One thing I've always wanted to be is a mother. I don't know how to ever explain it, since logically I should want to be a father, if anything. Does it make sense that a loving parent shouldn't be able to adopt a child because they had a surgery or changed their birth certificate at some point in the past? I'm sure most transgendered parents would absolutely not desire that their children go through the same trials and tribulations they had to go through, much less encourage it. Of course, what do I know...I'm just a silly boy who's pretending...

I know I won't be able to convince you; your heart is set.

OMEGA said...

No, you're a man. No amount of surgery can change your chromosomes, dude.

Anonymous said...

I'm transgender... and I could get a line of people, family and friends, that would make a STRONG argument for me to adopt based on how I've babysat, and even helped raised their children. My nephew is special needs (Lennox Gastaut Syndrome) and my sister has been begging me to move to San Antonio so she could fire her state designated nurse that helps her raise him. My brother and his ex wife have no problems leaving their (three) children with me (ages 5-13) for days while they go on vacation.

I'm pretty appalled that so many people wish that transgendered persons weren't able to adopt SOLELY because they are trans. Yes, it's true that there are a LOT of dysfunctional transsexuals whom have no business adopting, but why skim right over all of us because of that? Thinking of the children means putting them in a loving home that is capable of raising them, not pulling them from house to house in foster care or sending them to an orphanage.

I can almost guarantee that I'd probably make a better parent than most of the people in here could ever dream of. At least I wouldn't teach my child to blatantly discriminate. S/he would have a very loving, caring household full of protection. Also, I would embrace whatever the child would happen to be... whether it be straight, gay / lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, polygamous, punk rocker, teeny popper, hip-hopper, muslim, christian, athiest, agnostic... I wouldn't care, as long as that child has the love and opportunity to become a good human being with plenty of happiness throughout life.

OMEGA: Who gives a crap about chromosomes. What's that matter in day to day life. What does genitalia matter? I'll never understand why people come up with such frivolous stuff just to try to demean somebody. Good luck raising your child, I hope s/he turns out more mature than you are.

Anonymous said...

I'd also like to add, that I know quite a few transsexuals that ARE ACTIVELY raising children and they're doing so perfectly fine. Whether they have frozen their sperm in advance of castration, or whether they already had young children before transition... they're out there and their kids wouldn't trade them for the world. How myopic of some of you.

Anonymous said...

@LL: What you fail to realize is that you're basing your negative experiences to determine the ability of all of one particular set of people. The fact that someone is Transgender has no bearing on whether they can raise a child in a healthy nurturing environment. Any adoption agency must analyze and determine for themselves if a person is fit to parent and can provide them with the happiness and well being a child requires. That can be the case of anyone, Transgender or otherwise. I happen to be a transwoman. You would never be able to tell if you met me on the street, if you had a conversation with me or if you met my child. I provide my child with a loving home and he is very happy and well adjusted despite my transition.

Consider for a moment the number of incidents that you had the misfortune of handling in your career that were associated with the transgender community that painted them in a negative light. Then consider that for all that there are countless times more of us that simply live life like anyone else does. Some many not have the fortune of blending in to society as well as others and are subject to more hate and discrimination.

It's very similar to how many people who are white would label black people as criminals because of the number of them that are arrested/detained in urban ghettos. It's called stereotyping. and it's wrong.

I happen to be a well adjusted citizen with an above average income, an established career and wonderful family life. Should I therefore be prevented from adopting a child to raise and cherish as my own? To offer a child who has no one what every child deserves? I don't need your pity LL, I do expect your arguments to be rational and not stereotypically judgmental of a group as a whole. It's merely an avenue for hate.

Good day.

Zathena Cruz said...

People people calm down even the religion freaks calm down the world is a better place with transgender people they are just being true to them selves and if I remember correctly god said thy shall not lie.
Plus Jesus was a caring and loving man if as we killed him he cried we know not what we do please forgive them.

Unknown said...

Bigot

Zdlp said...

Bigot

Zdlp said...

Bigot.

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